Talk:Mana-Based Spellcasting (3.5e Variant Rule)
Design Question Before I rate this Surgo, I'd like to know if you think spell power follows the same growth pattern as character level. This is a how things actually are question, since you built this for current spells, not a how should they be question. Specifically: do you think that 1 spell of level X+1 = 2 spells of level X? If not, is 1 spell of level X+1 better than or worse than 2 spells of level X in general? - TarkisFlux 22:27, December 16, 2009 (UTC) :I just noticed this. Unless you're circumventing the round down rule, a level 1 mana caster only recovers strain from sleeping since half their level rounds to 0. Is this intentional? Similarly, the half level rule means that at level 8 onward you only need 7 hours of rest to fully recover and decreases consistently to only 4 hours at level 20 (assuming 20 or less in the casting stat at start, level bonuses to casting stat, and BoG item increases). Is that recovery period decrease intentional as well? ::It's not intentional, but it might be a feature -- I'll have to think about that one. As for the "how things are" question -- neither. Since this is a "how things are", I don't think that question has an answer -- you're asking me to quantify the difference of a level X and X+1 spell, and there are so many spells and so many variables that that just isn't possible and I think it would be a mistake to attempt to do that and then build a system based off of that for balance. I also don't think it's important to the balance of the overall system, which is similar to (but not quite) the spells-per-day numbers of a spellcaster's higher levels of spells. Surgo 00:03, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :::That last bit actually answers my question in a bizarre way. I'll hold off on favor until you decide if that's a now-intentional feature or if you're going to change the recovery mechanic somehow. - TarkisFlux 01:19, December 17, 2009 (UTC) ::::Not a feature, I'm editing it to make level 1 a special case. Surgo 01:24, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :::::Blah, edit conflicted. I realized it wouldn't change my thoughts anyway. - TarkisFlux 02:06, December 17, 2009 (UTC) Recovery Mechanic Something I forgot to include in this page, which would probably change Tarkis's favor, is that the recovery mechanics are designed to be pluggable. You have three of them here -- fatigue-based casting; recharge magic; and the sleep-eight-hours for those dinosaurs who still believe in the 4-encounter workday. They can, and sometimes are, plugged in and out depending on what you're looking for. I just need to find a way to fit this text in to the overall narrative. Surgo 03:06, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :Yeah, that probably would. Tweaking that resolves all of the spell points issues I think you even can resolve without making serious changes to spells. If you're considering tweaking these anyway, I should point out that (barring spell buffs) your half level or cast stat mod, whichever is less, only matters at 20 given the same stat adjusts I used above. Quarter strain or cast stat mod, whichever is less, is a little more consistant but might fail some of the other adjusts you have in mind. - TarkisFlux 03:34, December 17, 2009 (UTC) ::I'm having a really tough time working the extra words about the pluggable recovery mechanic into the page's narrative. Hrm... Surgo 03:43, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :::There, a footnote should do okay -- no added length. Surgo 04:00, December 17, 2009 (UTC) Tarkisflux's Criticism Reading Tarkisflux's favor, I thought overnight about the criticism of being able to cast more as you go up in level. I personally believe that is a feature (and why it's designed that way), but I can understand why some people wouldn't like it. I'm thinking of adding in a second footnote, or part of the first, an example recovery mechanic that replaces the normal recharge with a recharge that's static based on caster level. What does everyone else think? Surgo 14:30, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :I think that since you intend people to adjust to taste you might be well served by staying away from specifics. A short discussion on what adjusting each variable does to a caster might get you there more effectively. For example, it might be nice to spell out that increasing or decreasing the strain pool doesn't have a strong impact on how many spells you can cast in a day if the recharge mechanic is turned up to high, but it does impact how many spells they can cast in a series of encounters before they need to recharge. And that the recharge amount limits total day castings more strongly than strain limit unless it's fairly low. Or that the refresh at night thing being eliminated only impacts the game at low levels or if recharge is turned down. So I guess some higher level interaction talk to better equip people who don't think about this stuff all of the time to make the adjustments they want. - TarkisFlux 23:16, December 17, 2009 (UTC) Favor So basically.. It's just like Ledgendary Quest, with some minor modifications. It was a good idea 7yrs ago and it's still a good idea. I think I like LQ's way of doing it though, no free spells for one thing. =P http://legendaryquest.com/ If you haven't heard of it, although given the similarities.. 23:34, January 16, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, I have never heard of it. I play very, very few systems. Surgo 23:38, January 16, 2010 (UTC) Epic How do you handle epic casting? Just keep going the same way? So 4th lvl spells are free at 23rd lvl, etc. And how are epic spells cast? If at all. 23:38, January 16, 2010 (UTC) :You don't gain any new spell slots in epic anyway, so I don't see a convincing reason to extend the table to get your spells even cheaper (they're already technically getting cheaper because your mana keeps going up). 10th level slots, 11th level slots, etc., should cost maybe 12 mana. Surgo 23:40, January 16, 2010 (UTC) What about Bards? That's my question, what about the other classes? like bard, duskblade, hexblade, artificer, etc.? Is there some sort of special equation used to figure out what their strain/mana cost would be? I'm wondering b/c I think this is the best spell casting alternative, and I would like to apply it to some other classes to see how they look. 13:36, April 23, 2010 (UTC) :Every full caster should have the mana cost given in the table. There needs to be one made for non-full casters, like Bard -- I'll get on that. As far as spell-like abilities go, I have not attempted to fit them to the system. Surgo 18:42, April 23, 2010 (UTC) I rather like this variant, and would like to try it out. The only issue I'm seeing is a lack of specialist rules, which I tend to use quite often. I would imagine something along the lines of -1 to the strain cost for spells in your specialist school for each other school banned to be balanced enough. Thoughts?